Nigerian-British Author Nikki May Shares Her Writing Journey and Latest Novel

Monica Wisdom: 00:00:08

Welcome and thank you for tuning in to black women amplified the podcast. Your host, Monica Wisdom brings you downloadable conversations that matter to women around the globe.

We discuss all things black girl magic, amplify our voices and transform our challenges into triumphs. Monica calls on her league of extraordinary women to push our boundaries, share their expertise and stories of personal transformation.

Welcome your host of Black Women Amplified, Monica Wisdom Tyson.

: 00:00:48

Hello black women amplified family.

: 00:00:50

It is your girl, Monica Wisdom and.

: 00:00:52

I am thrilled to be with you today. We have a very exciting show and I can't wait to introduce you to our guest. But before we do that, how are you doing?

: 00:01:04

How are you?

: 00:01:05

How are you? Thank you for joining us. It is season four and wow, what a power pack season it is going to be. I'm excited for this new era.

I'm excited for our new vibe and our new offerings that we're bringing you more information, more solo conversations, and we're going to get to work because it's time for you to share your story.

In this week's episode, we have an incredible author who's going to share with us her story, her journey to becoming an author, and how she moved from being an executive to a full time writer and now television producer. But before we get into this conversation, I want to tell you a bit about what's happening in the world of black women amplified.

Because we have added some exciting elements to the podcast, we've added a membership. We've expanded our services into a full blown women's entrepreneurship company. So black women amplified is no longer just the podcast.

We are full business, helping women empower their lives, their businesses and having the best purpose filled adventures life can offer. And in our membership, called the Afterglow, we're offering member only episodes, signature journals at membership prices. A virtual book club.

Because we have so many authors, it's.

Nikki May: 00:02:39

Time for us to read their books.

: 00:02:40

Together and a monthly feminine power audio masterclass just for you and the members of the Afterglow membership.

It's so exciting and I've been working on this for a while, going over all of the details and I can't wait for you to experience everything, but we'll talk more about that later. Today, I am truly excited to introduce you to Nikki Mae, our guest all the way from England.

She's joining us to have a conversation about her latest work. And before we get into this incredible conversation, let me properly introduce you to Nikki Mae.

Nikki May: 00:03:24

Born in Bristol, raised in Nigeria, Nikki May is an Anglo Nigerian who brings her life experiences into the pages of her work her acclaimed book, Wahala is in production with the BBC as she's releasing her latest novel, this Motherless Land. A beautifully complex novel exploring the life of Funke. Spanning two decades while experiencing life, loss, identity, culture and love.

Funke, raised in Nigeria, was whisked off to England after a tragedy. And spends years finding her way home. Nikki joins us from a home in England.

And is graciously sharing her story on and off the pages of her wonderful books. Ladies and gentlemen, please give a warm black women amplified welcome to author television producer Nikki May.

: 00:04:20

Black women amplified family. As I said before, we have an incredible treat for you today. Miss Nikki May, how are you doing today?

: 00:04:31

I'm good, Monica. I'm really excited to be talking to you. It's raining in England, but this is going to be my sunshine for today.

Nikki May: 00:04:40

Well, glad to sprinkle a little sunshine.

: 00:04:42

From the midwest all the way across the pond.

: 00:04:45

I'll take it.

: 00:04:47

I've been to England one time and went to London and it rained. You know what? Actually, it was sunny.

: 00:04:54

What?

: 00:04:55

I know when I got there, I expected.

Nikki May: 00:04:56

I was like.

: 00:04:57

I was ready for the rain, I was ready for the cold. And it was sunny and bright and cheery. I said, okay, I brought the sunshine.

: 00:05:05

Exactly. It was all you.

: 00:05:08

So I just want to thank you so much for this book. It explores life in a beautifully complicated way. But before we talk about the new book, let's go back a little bit to your first book, Walhalla.

Am I pronouncing that correctly?

: 00:05:23

You are.

: 00:05:25

What has shifted about your life since the incredible success of that book?

: 00:05:30

Well, you know, being an author is a weird thing, but it happens in fits and starts. So most of the time, I'm just me. I just live in a very quiet place with my husband and my two dogs.

And I just go about my life and try and fit some writing into my day. And then occasionally, you put your author clothes on and you jump on a zoom. Or you go to a book thing or a book club.

So I wouldn't say that much has changed. I think it's really important to keep yourself real and to stick with people, you know, who you knew before you wrote the book.

And I also think that the way to rise is to live. So I'm just really all about living and getting new experiences. And being an author is honestly a very. Being a public author is very.

A very small part of my life. My main part of my life is with real people, real friends, real family.

And so I try to keep it that way and try not to get too involved in the whole writer thing and the whole publisher thing, because I think that way lies madness.

: 00:06:29

You gotta enjoy it a little bit, though.

: 00:06:31

Oh, definitely. No, I love putting on lipstick and putting on some and talk, and there's nothing authors like more than talking about their books.

So, yes, I do enjoy it, but it's in fits and bursts, and real life is the main thing.

: 00:06:44

Yes, real life is important, and your book is very real life. Was being a writer always or an author always the dream?

: 00:06:53

No. I grew up, so my dad's nigerian and my mom is English. And although I was born in England, I moved to Lagos before I was two.

So I grew up in Lagos, and I was going to be a doctor before I could walk. It wasn't my choice. It was just, Nikki's going to be a doctor. And I went totally along with it.

I went to medical school, and it was in year three that I realized this was not for me. And I dropped out of medical school, which freaked my father out. I mean, he was just. He was. I think he was heartbroken, to be fair.

And it was very much, if you don't go back, you're on your own. So I ran away, ran to England, and I was very much on my own.

I got a job in an advertising agency and realized that creativity was where I wanted to be.

But I always felt, I think, that if you're brought up thinking you have to be a doctor or a lawyer, an accountant, which is very much the african dream, then you're always going to feel like a failure unless you do those things. So I never thought writing was a proper job. Also, I think you can't be what you can't see.

So it was only when I started reading things like Chimamanda and Ghosia Dice or, you know, people like that, that I thought, actually, you can be a writer. It can be something that's worth having. But to be perfectly honest, I wrote wahala. And I think I started writing wahala when I was 55.

So it took me a whole life to realize this was something I could actually do. But to be fair, I think it took a whole life for me to have the experience. It took me a whole life to have something to say.

So I don't think I could have done it any earlier. And I definitely. Writing as a job didn't even figure in my lexicon when I was younger.

: 00:08:33

I always hear african people say that these are the three careers that were the choice. It's the same for us. For us as lawyer doctor, engineer, professor, you know, so we have a very limited view of careers.

So if you go anywhere outside of that, it's a problem.

: 00:08:51

You're a failure. That's the other option. You're a failure. Definitely what I was.

: 00:08:57

And you feel it in everything you do. You question yourself. You feel the insecurities, the doubt, the self doubt.

: 00:09:04

So until absolutely, even when you're doing really well. Cause I had a good career in advertising. It was successful, but I still had failure written on my head in big letters.

: 00:09:15

And speaking of Nigeria, Nigeria is a main character in both of your books. Tell us about growing up there and the people that influenced you.

: 00:09:24

I honestly think I had a blessed childhood. I grew up in Nigeria in the seventies. So my second book is very much set when I was there.

When I was growing up there, and my dad was a doctor, my mom was a teacher. We had a really lovely middle class life.

We used to go to the beach at the weekends to collect cuttlefish bones for my sister's parrot, who's an african grey named Billy. My mom taught in my school, and she was an ink. She taught art.

And the kids loved her because she abhorred corporal punishment and used to shell out cuddles while everybody else, all the other nigerian teachers, were shelling out slaps or head knocks. And I rode around the quiet campus streets because my dad was a lecturer on my green chopper with my little brother.

So, as you'll see, this motherless land has got a lot of me in it. I loved growing up in Nigeria. I still think of Lagos as home.

I was there a couple of months ago for my dad's 90th birthday, and it was a wonderful place to grow up. It was lively. It was energetic. There was music. It was just wonderful. And there wasn't any racism because we have lots of isms.

I'm not saying we're perfect. We have a lot of isms. We have tribalism, we have colorism, we have sexism, we have raging homophobia. But we didn't have racism.

So growing up, there was. I honestly think it was a blessed time. And it was when I came to England at 20, when I dropped out of medical school, that I discovered racism.

And I discovered that first time I'd ever been looked down on in my life. I didn't like it. But I have a love of. I do love Nigeria. Don't get me wrong. We've got our problems. We do have corruption.

We do have lots and lots of problems, but it will always be home.

And I always think in everything I write, it's important to show the joy of living in Lagos, the joy of being nigerian, and to get away from the stereotypes, because I do think the whole of Africa is clouded with this flattening stereotype that almost others us and makes us feel. And it's just so wrong. Even now when I go home, I have people say to me, oh, be careful. Will you be okay? It's like, yes, I'll be fine.

It's no different to going to Bangkok or to Cairo. It's a city. It's fine. It'll be absolutely great. But also, that's where I'm from. These are my people. So I do love Nigerian.

I always wanted to feature it as a character, as a living, breathing character in my work.

: 00:11:54

And I could feel the joy in Nigeria. I've been to Ghana and South Africa.

: 00:11:59

I love Ghana.

: 00:12:00

Yeah, I understand. Coming from America, I know racism very well.

: 00:12:05

Yes, yes. I read the trees, and that was a wake up call.

: 00:12:09

You read the what?

: 00:12:10

The trees, by Percival Everett. I was honestly shocked. It's awful. It's about the hangings, and it's just an awful book.

: 00:12:19

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

: 00:12:20

Yeah, totally.

: 00:12:22

But when I went to London, it hit me in the face like I had never experienced before, and I was like, wait a minute.

: 00:12:31

In some ways, it's almost worse when it's done in that sort of typical british, understated way. It's almost more painful, you know, that sort of the condescension. And it's almost.

It's like that sort of unconscious bias, which I think can be actually worsted conscious bias. But, yeah, it's hateful. It's hateful.

: 00:12:51

Yeah, I experienced that and I was like, okay, well, London's off the list. Travel other places. Yeah, we talk in America. We talk a lot about identity, and we're often told to choose a side.

You know, if you're biracial, you either have to be black or you have to be white or you have to be asian, you have to be black, whatever your identity is. But you made a different choice. You decided to embrace your wholeness. How does that show up in your life?

: 00:13:20

Well, I do think it's taken me a long time to realize I can be both. Not half, and I can be fully nigerian, and I can be fully english, and I can be both things at the same time.

And I think it's actually wrong for someone to try and take one of them away from me or to try and make assumptions. I mean, the truth is, identity is hugely complex. It's very nuanced. And it actually doesn't matter how I feel.

Other people are always happy to make decisions for me and to tell me what they think I am and to tell me I'm being too black, or I'm being too white, or I'm not being black enough, or I'm not being white enough. And it's taken me a whole lifetime to think, you know what? I actually don't care what you think. I am happy being me, and I'm content with being me.

And sometimes that means I'm going to be dancing to rock music like a white girl. And sometimes it means I'm going to be eating ebba and egusi with my hands like a proper nigerian woman. And that is totally okay.

And I think you're always told to pick a side. And the truth is, I will never be white. I could say I'm white and people would just laugh at me, but I will always be black.

But I think it's so nuanced. And I think race is complicated. I think it's also ridiculous, the whole focus on race and racism. I think it's.

And in some ways, what I wanted to do with this book was almost poke fun at it and prodded it and show how ridiculous it is and how irrational it is.

Because at the end of the day, it's all about privilege and prejudice, and there's always somebody who wants the whip hand and somebody who has to be the underdog. And I hope you always have to choose. But if I could choose, I would choose both.

: 00:15:07

And they're both rich cultures, you know, in their own way.

: 00:15:10

And also, I don't. You know, my mother's white, my father's black. You know, I love them both. And that you're allowed to do that.

: 00:15:17

Yeah. And you want to be a whole person. You don't want to walk through life having to decide all day. You know, it's like speaking two different languages.

: 00:15:27

Exactly. And I do codeswitch. I really do. I mean, genuinely, it's not even intentional. I codeswitch.

If I was, when I'm in Lagos, my voice changes, my syntax changes, I become loud. Nigerians are ridiculously loud. And I love it. And, you know, we have exaggerated hand movements, and we're very dramatic.

And England, we're very understated, and we're very apologetic of ourselves. And I do switch between both almost instinctively. It's not sort of. I know when to hug people and when to shake hands.

I know when to say auntie and when to say auntie. It's just, it's like, becomes your common language. But I think everybody does that these days because we all move around so much.

I think we learn to just inhabit the place we're in the.

: 00:16:12

Mm hmm. We do. I know that we do. And my uncle told me a long time ago is that you have to be multidialectal.

You have to be able to be able to speak to anybody in any environment.

: 00:16:23

Exactly. Exactly.

: 00:16:24

So you do learn to switch. And it's not just black and white.

: 00:16:28

Everybody knows which is exactly. It's which group of friends you're with. You know, I agree with you totally. And I don't actually think codeswitching is a bad thing.

I think it's just a human thing.

: 00:16:38

And from an american perspective, it's about survival. You know, it came out of Jim Crow, so it was about survival. Just staying alive. Just staying alive.

Now you're in the midst of developing your first novel into a television show.

: 00:16:53

Yes.

: 00:16:56

And you decided, well, since I'm doing that, I might as well write another book.

: 00:17:01

Yes.

: 00:17:02

Tell us about that process and how you were able to navigate through those two different projects.

: 00:17:10

Well, Wahala was snapped up by the BBC and Firebird productions before it was even published, and I'm not writing the script. There's an incredibly clever lady called Teresa Ikoco who's also Angla Nigerian, and she's writing the script. So that's great. And she's wonderful.

She was BAFTA nominated for rocks. She's a star. So I actually, it's a quite hands off process.

I mean, they're very collaborative and they're telling me what they're doing, but it's totally down to them. So for me, it was just this dream come true.

Saying that my first book is going to be on the telly is I still have to pinch myself and say, is this really happening? Is this really happening? But my second book, this motherless land, is also being adapted for tv.

And in this particular one, I'm going to be in the writing room. I'm not writing the script, but I'm going to be involved and sort of on a consultancy basis.

So that hasn't started yet, but that's going to be super exciting, I think, because it's such a personal book, they kind of want to have my, they want my involvement a bit more, and I'm really looking forward to being part of it. Monica, the truth is it just feels surreal. It's. It only feels real at times like this when I'm talking to you.

Most of the time, I think, this isn't really happening. This can't be true. But it's fantastic. I can't wait to see it.

: 00:18:27

And it's important to have your story told and out into the lexicon of the world, because it's real people.

: 00:18:34

I know. And we need all the stories, you know, we need all the stories. We need the stories about slavery. We need the stories about trauma.

But we also need joyful stories. We need positive stories. We need, you know, so I just think we need to be represented. You can't be what you can't see.

So we need to see ourselves in literature, and we need to see ourselves in film.

: 00:18:54

And like you said, you can't become what you don't see.

So if somebody is reading your book, not only do you hear about these incredible characters, but you get to hear about Britain and you get to hear about Nigeria in a new way. And so people get to explore. And that's when I started traveling, is because I read books and I saw people that traveled.

: 00:19:15

Monica, I'm exactly the same. And travel and reading is such a cheap way to travel. I've been to India. I've been to Korea.

I've been all around America, even though I've only ever visited two places. And it's such a rich way of traveling and seeing how other people live and seeing another point of view. So I totally agree with you.

Reading is just the best escape and the best way to learn.

: 00:19:39

Definitely.

: 00:19:42

Hello, everyone. Monica wisdom here. I am the host and the producer of the Black Women Amplified podcast.

But what you might not know is that I'm also a consultant for women entrepreneurs. I help women entrepreneurs develop their ideas, their brand, and their overall business strategy.

Are you developing a groundbreaking idea or have a wealth of knowledge that could impact the world but unsure where to go next? Business is good, but you're ready for it to be great. With countless ideas racing through your mind, it's challenging to figure out what's next.

I understand you have excelled with top companies, but entrepreneurship feels like a new language. The truth is, you can do this. You've achieved great success for others, and now it's time to achieve it for yourself.

At Monica Wisdom Consulting, we focus on your vision and crafting a clear, strategic plan. Your dreams are within reach. You simply need a powerful roadmap to get you there. Are you ready to take the next step?

Book a call, and let's discuss your vision and future. You can reach me at www.monicawisdomhq.com.

: 00:21:09

What inspired this motherless land. And why was it important to tell this story?

: 00:21:14

So writing a book is such a huge thing. It's a huge undertaking. It takes two years, at least, out of your life. It becomes an all encompassing thing while you're doing it.

So you have to actually really love the idea that you're talking about or you're going to spend two years writing about. And I played with a lot of ideas after Wahala. I thought about other friend groups and other contemporary things.

And then I was rewatching Mansfield park for the upteenth time.

And the idea of this girl who's taken away from everything she knows and thrown into this strange, alien environment where she has to prove herself over and over again. It just grabbed me and it wouldn't let go. And Funke walked into my head, and she was fully formed. I could see her. I could imagine her.

Which helps that the fact that Funke was walking out of my house, she was riding my bicycle. I could just see everything about her. So. And it's a very personal book. There's a lot of me that poured into that.

And that idea just kept pulling at me. It tugged at me. At the time I called it brown girl in the ring because it was. Funke was the hero. She was the brown girl.

And she was brought to England to live in this cold, grey house with her cold, grey family in a house called the ring. And I wrote the first draft, and I wrote it really quickly because it just poured out of me. But when I read it back, I realized it wasn't quite.

Quite the right story. It wasn't the story I wanted to tell. And that this story was more complicated than that. And it wasn't just about Funke.

It was about Funke and her cousin Liv. And it wasn't just about being taken away. It was about being put back.

And it was also about love and whether love is important, whether love is strong enough to make a difference between surviving and thriving. And it was about mothers and what's worse, a wonderful mother who's dead or a terrible mother who's alive.

And it was about the trauma you inherit and whether you can escape your legacy. It was a much bigger book than I originally intended, which was really annoying because it meant she was so much more complicated.

I now had my little sweet book about funke now turned into this mess that went across decades and went across continents, and it became. It was almost this unwieldy beast that I had to pull together. But sometimes characters tell you what they need to do, and you can't help it.

You just have to go along with them. And looking back now, I think it was the story I wanted to tell.

And it was hopefully a very balanced, nuanced story about belonging and about identity and about privilege and about place and about misunderstanding. So it's quite a. But also, hopefully it's an entertaining book because I really never want to preach. I never want to lecture people.

I just really want to entertain them. And if they happen to take more out of it, then that's a bonus. Yeah.

: 00:24:21

I didn't feel preached to. I didn't at all. I was like, wait a minute, let me read this again, because let me just say this. In the first part, I was like, well, who is Kate?

: 00:24:31

No, of course.

: 00:24:32

Okay, I missed something. Who is Kate? And then I realized, oh, my God, Kate is.

: 00:24:38

And it does happen. I mean, it happens. It happened, you know, I mean, I watch roots, Kunta Kinte, it happens. But when I first came to England, Nikki is not my name.

My name is Moira Nikkei. But when I came here, that was unpronounceable. Too many vowels, all in the wrong place.

And you got people who can say Tchaikovsky or doce, but no way can they say Nikki. So I renamed myself as Nikki. And that is about bending and twisting yourself almost out of shape in order to fit in.

And I did that to Funke, and I turned her into Kate or Catherine. And then I did it again, sent her back and made. And these things are traumatic.

I still now, when I hear Nikkei, I look up and I think, there's so few people now. My mom, my dad, my sister, my brother, a few childhood friends who still call me that. But it was my name, and it should have been my name.

But I do think there's some progress. I think nowadays people are less likely to change. You know, when you see people like Lupita, you think, yes, thank goodness she's kept her name.

hink there's progress, but in: 1978

: 00:25:47

Oh, not at all. If you were anywhere outside of Bob or Jane.

: 00:25:52

Yeah, yeah.

: 00:25:54

You were automatically othered. Or somebody would just give you their own version of your name.

: 00:25:59

Exactly. And tell you that's what it's going to be. And you should be grateful.

: 00:26:02

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. I can always tell who's talking to me by how they say my name. And my name is Monica, so it's not that complicated.

Yeah, but for some reason, there are many versions of that name. Now, Franke had quite a life.

: 00:26:18

She did.

: 00:26:19

And this you take us on a journey of 20 years of her life. What do you want us to understand about her?

: 00:26:26

I think Twinke's gift is resilient to. And I think that resilience comes from her mother. Even though she lost her mother when she was nine years old, which is.

I mean, that's just way too young. Her mother still was with her because her mother had touched so many people. And the people she touched were there for Funke.

So I think there's a nigerian saying, en yo la shomi. And it's a really hard. It's a Yoruba saying. It's really hard to translate, but it kind of means that people are my covering people.

People are what hold me together. People are what protect me. And whenever I think of that saying, any or lash or me, it almost gives me goosebumps.

Because I think it's so true that good people are what hold us up. They don't have to be family. They can be, but they don't have to be. They don't have to be friends. But Fuloncare had huge resilience.

And then she was held up by good people who were there when she needed them to be. And she never. She didn't. I would hardly call her life blessed, but it was blessed. And I do think in some ways, her mother misses Lizzie.

That's the kind of legacy we should all dream of leaving. Where you've touched other people to the extent that they would remember you. And they will be good to your kin.

And I don't think you can leave more in this world than Miss Misses Lissy left. So I got really emotional when I was writing it. There I was sobbing at my I desk over and over.

So, I mean, I suppose I did write with the intent to tug at the heartstrings. But I assure you, it tugged at mine as I was writing it. Because Funke is the best of them. You know, she's. There's a.

I think I put this quote at the beginning. It's from the Bible, that the stone. She's like the family stone. She is the stone, the cornerstone. She is the best of them.

So I do have a real soft spot for Funke. I think I love her.

: 00:28:25

I love how you started the book. Letting us know exactly what the timeframe was with a quote from Greece.

: 00:28:30

One of my favorite movies.

Nikki May: 00:28:32

I said, okay, let's go.

: 00:28:34

I put all of my favorite movies that I have grease, I have top gun. I have Titanic. And I have. Oh, what's my last one? I have the one with Whitney Houston bodyguard. That was such good fun.

I think it also helps ground the reader because.

Because, as I said, I didn't mean to write this book that became so big and went over decades, but it was important for the reader to know where they were. So by starting on this quote, they'd realize, hey, we jumped ten years or eight years or whatever.

We're now in a different decade, and we're now in a different time.

: 00:29:11

And it connected me as an american to the story outside of the themes of the human themes. I was like, oh, they were watching the same movies we were watching.

: 00:29:21

Isn't that what's wonderful about movies, though? We're watching them and music, watching and listening to the same wonderful things all over the world.

I think that's kind of wonderful because human beings, we're so similar, although we don't know it, right?

: 00:29:35

And I love. It was a point in the book where you were talking about the uncles and their afros. I was like, oh, they were part of the soul power movement.

I can just imagine them watching shaft and dolomite and listening to James Brown and Felix.

: 00:29:50

This american program called Soul Train. And we used to practice our dance moves to soul train. And these guys with these big, perfectly round afros.

: 00:30:01

I was, you know, and just those little subtle. I was like, oh, my goodness. Like all the dots are connecting. Yeah, all connected. And just so many things.

I don't want to give anything away, but I always have lots of questions, but I can't ask them because I know.

: 00:30:15

Spoiler.

: 00:30:17

But aside from Funke, Olivia and that mother.

: 00:30:23

Oh, malka maka.

: 00:30:26

Yes. There was some inanimate objects that were main center characters as well. The string of pearls and the ring. So what did those represent in the book?

: 00:30:40

Well, I think I'm drawn to touch points that keep reverberating through a book. So you had the pearls, which start off very early in the book, when Funke is putting them around her mother's neck and become two different.

They're so different. The pearls on her mother's neck versus the pearls on Aunt Margot's neck. And even things like food, like the sherbet dip dabs.

I just love this idea of anchoring points in a book that sort of keep you. It keeps the thread running all the way through, and it stops it being this meandering saga. It sort of keeps you grounded a little bit.

I also love food in books. So in Wahala, somebody once said that it's basically a long jollof rice recipe. And I was like, yep, I'm done with that. I don't mind.

And in this book, there's a lot of food.

And one of the best things about being mixed race is having nigerian food and british food and having both of them as your own and being able to claim them both. But, yes, even Billy the parrot is almost one of those. He's not inanimate, but he's an anchoring point in the book.

You meet him in the beginning, and he's still there at the end. And it's. There's something to me about it helping anchor the reader in time and helping keep the universe small enough for the reader to absorb that.

I just enjoy. I enjoy reading in other books, and I enjoy putting it into mine.

: 00:32:05

I loved reading that Fonke's mother was able to find her own group of people within a completely different culture than hers.

: 00:32:13

Yes.

: 00:32:14

And so she was able to maintain who she was.

: 00:32:17

Yes.

: 00:32:18

In the midst of everything. So I loved how everybody was able to maintain who they were.

: 00:32:24

And again, it's a bit like mirrors how this is. Lizzie from Ke's mother is so different from Liv's mother.

And, you know, Funke's mother would find joy and find community wherever she went, and Liv's mother would find joy and community nowhere. And I kind of like that juxtaposition because, you know, nature matters and people's human nature does make a difference, and.

: 00:32:49

It shows how important environment is to us. Because who would know where Funkee would end up if she had not had that foundation of her mother?

: 00:32:58

Exactly.

: 00:32:59

Especially going to a place that even denied her name.

: 00:33:03

Exactly. And to think that was her mother's home, and it was still the coldest place she could possibly have ended up in.

: 00:33:09

But I love how you describe the difference in the way that the aunt and the mother dressed like, it was clear that these are. She was like, you don't look anything like my mother.

: 00:33:21

I know, and I can see that, though. I mean, I do think sometimes when you. Sometimes siblings can be the most opposite. You know, you think, are you actually related?

You know that feeling when you think, really, did you come from the same place?

: 00:33:36

But there are normally some similarities. These were two very different people. The generosity that Elizabeth had was just.

I mean, when Funke went back older to Nigeria and the people were talking about her mom, I was in tears.

: 00:33:52

I know.

: 00:33:53

I was like, I want that type of legacy.

: 00:33:57

Exactly. It's. How perfect.

Isn't that the best legacy you can leave to have touched people, people that aren't your, you know, to have left that impression on someone that it's going, oh, I just. I hope that's my aim in life. Please let me be able to leave a good legacy like that. Please.

In fact, from next, from tomorrow, Monica, I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be misses Lizzie.

: 00:34:21

Like, let me sit up a little straighter. I need to get back on my game.

: 00:34:25

Yes. Let me be a good person. I don't want to be maggots.

: 00:34:30

Not at all. Not at all. And ooh. I'm trying not to say something cause no spoilers. No spoilers.

But this Walhalla was your debut novel and you became an author later in life. Like you said, at 55, how did you navigate through your career change?

: 00:34:50

I actually think it was much easier doing it older because at 55 you've kind of been around the block a few times, you've been hurt, you've been sacked, you've been promoted. You know, you're kind of used to the ups and downs of the world.

And I actually, firstly, I'm always amazed at young, I'm always amazed that how can you have something to say at 20 something. I didn't have anything to say. I was talking complete crap. So firstly, there's that.

But secondly, being published can actually be, it can be quite a vicious that they say you shouldn't go and look at your goodreads and they say you shouldn't get obsessed by your reviews, but of course you do. And you take the criticism to heart. And I don't know that at 20 or 25 or even 30 or 35, I'd have been able to hack it.

So I personally, I'm all in favor of waiting till you're a bit older to be published, waiting till you've got something to say, and waiting till you've got a really thick skin like mine that can handle feedback. Not just bad feedback, but good feedback.

Because it also, it's very easy to become, you know, high on your own supply and think that you're amazing just because you've been lucky. Because a lot of publishing has to do with luck. You know, it's right place, right time, you know, right reader, right.

Obviously, hard work comes into it and hopefully talent comes into it. But I honestly think with publishing, like most creative things, there's also a lot of luck that comes into it.

So I think being older has actually really helped me. It's helped me keep a sense of perspective. It's helped me not get too upset with a bad review or not get too big headed with a good one.

And it's also, I think, at this stage in your life you realize what's important. When you get to my age, you've been through most of the emotions. You've had grief. You've had loss. You've had love.

You've had, you know, so you're sort of better at processing them. So I have to say, I give a real. I am hugely in awe of how authors do it when they're younger because I personally not sure I would have coped.

I'm serious, Monica. I'd have been a basket case.

: 00:36:58

And, I mean, people can say, well, this is quick for you, but this is a 50 plus year journey.

: 00:37:05

I'm an overnight success. It just took 58 years. Yes.

: 00:37:12

It just took half a century. Not long.

: 00:37:14

Yeah, exactly. Plus.

: 00:37:17

But with navigating through film and television and television shows and writing, how are you able to stay grounded? I know you say it's about real people, but really, how are you able to stay grounded so that you don't get caught up in the.

Not the fame or the money or the, you know, the celebrity of it all, but just keeping clear on your mission and what you're trying to put out in the world.

: 00:37:49

It helps that I've got really good friends who put me in my place. You know, if I got high on my own supply, they would be the first people to tell me. I think it helps that I love reading.

So I am reading two books a week, minimum. And I'm reading things that are so much better than anything I could ever dream of writing. So it's easy to see. Look, you know, I've got.

There's so much room for me to do better work. I think it helps that I live in the country, so I walk a lot. So I think being grounded in, you know, just everyday normal stuff.

Cooking your own food, cleaning your own toilet, you know, just real life really helps. And I think it's also good that I really like my life. So I actually like the mundaneness of it. I don't get me wrong.

You know, tomorrow I'm in London meeting the team that are doing the tv for the second book for this motherless land. And it's so exciting, Monica. I've got my clothes set out for what I'm going to wear tomorrow. I'm going to try this new lipstick I bought.

And I'm going into London and it's going, you know, I'm so excited about it. But I also know that as I get on the train to come home, I'm going to be like, phew. Back to actual normal me. Wipe that makeup off my face.

You know, take that bra off to Monica. You're watching me. I thought we had the cameras off. So. Exactly that. And that's another thing. Why?

I honestly think I am honestly blessed to have achieved this at this age rather than a younger age when I honestly think. I'm not sure I'd have coped as well with this. And I think I'd have become really obnoxious.

But so, you know, I've got my best friends coming to stay this weekend, and she doesn't want to talk about the book, and she doesn't want to talk about the tv. She wants to talk about, you know, what happened on Love island last week. She wants to talk about, do you think my ass looks good in these jeans?

Normal shit. So I think it helps. I think it's really important. I also think it's very difficult to create unless you're actually living.

So I think it's really important to just live a normal life. But I do love my little book bits. I'm coming to New York for the launch of this book, and I cannot wait. I'm so excited.

But it will be a three day gap from real life. And I will honestly be quite happy to get back to real life.

: 00:40:09

Yes, but it's New York. I know.

: 00:40:12

I can't wait.

: 00:40:13

So are you going to extend your trip and head over to Broadway for a little bit?

: 00:40:18

I'm going to Brooklyn. I've got friends living in Brooklyn. I'm really excited. I'm going to walk over the bridge like a proper tourist going there.

And I'm going to century 21. I'm a, you know, I'm going there. Get some discounts. I'm going to do the Empire State Building. I'm going to be such a tourist.

I'll be there with my phone out. And I'm really looking forward to. I worked in New York for years and years and years ago, so I love it. So I'm really excited about it.

And I'm going to go to every barnes and noble and say, do you know who I am? It's like a proper nigerian girl.

: 00:40:50

Have you met me yet?

: 00:40:51

Exactly. Allow me to introduce myself.

: 00:40:57

Now. What advice do you have for people that may feel like they have a book in them?

Because clearly you're telling us it's not too late to write that book, but what advice do you have for them?

: 00:41:08

I would say read. I think reading is the best way to learn how to write. I think the more you read. All my childhood wasted reading was not wasted.

It was really time well spent. I so I think, read a lot.

I think read really good books that will inspire you, but I also think you should read really rubbish books, because if you read a really crap book, you feel better about yourself when you think, hey, if that got published, I can get published. And that's really important. And I think the other thing to do is to just write, because when you start writing, you find your voice.

One of the best things anybody's ever said to me, and it was a really good friend, and she turned around and said, when I read Wahala, I could hear you. It was like you were talking to me. And I think that is the trick to find your own voice, and therefore it will be authentic.

I tend to write about what I know, and I. It's all fiction. I make it up, but it's grounded in where I've been and what I. So you can speak authentically. I think authenticism is just such an.

I think it shines through writing. If you read a book that doesn't feel authentic, you're quickly knocked out. It's very hard to suspend disbelief if something jars you.

So I think read a lot, practice writing a lot. You know, do a few writing prompts. I think social media, bookstagram is great for that.

You can get people that give, you know, write 100 words on rain or write 100 words on a parrot, and it's like a muscle practice and also live, because if you live, you've got something to talk about. So the older you are, the better, the more life you've had.

: 00:42:41

When I finished your book, my thought was, I always think in the abstract, I'm like, she's like a gardener. You planted all of these seeds in the beginning, and we get to watch them grow, and then at the end, you harvested. Harvest season was amazing.

How do you keep the storylines? How do you keep yourself organized while you're telling a story this complicated?

: 00:43:06

It is so hard. With Wahala, I had these three characters narrating this story, and they were on this loop, so it was always ronquet boo simi. Ronke boo simi.

And it got so complicated that even I got confused about who's where, who knows what, who doesn't know what. And I said to myself, book two, gonna keep it simple. It's gonna last for a few days. It's only gonna have one character. And then here I go.

I'm traipsing decades. I'm traipsing two characters. I'm traipsing continents. And Monica. I got lost. I got confused. I couldn't work out where I was. Who knew?

What does she know she's alive? Does she know? She. She's dead. Who? Where is this person? And it's all in the editing. You have to write it. Then you have to read it.

And you have to tear it apart. And you have to build it up again. And repeat, I think. But first, when I first sent it to my editors, I was on draft eight.

I'd written this book eight times. And the worst thing is, then your editor comes back and says, thanks for your first draft. What do you mean, first? I have sweated blood.

Surely it's finished. And then he realized, nope. She's found lots of things that don't work. And she wants you to go back to the beginning and rebuild it.

It's like a marathon writing a book. It's a long.

Which is why you have to love your story and you have to love your characters, because otherwise, there is no way you'll be able to invest that much time in them. Yeah.

: 00:44:31

I was like, oh, my goodness. I don't know how. If I could do this, I would probably have a simple book.

: 00:44:37

Next book is going to have one character one day, maybe a dog. One person and a dog. A dog that can't talk.

: 00:44:46

I just interviewed Jane Allen.

: 00:44:48

Ooh.

: 00:44:49

Her latest book comes out next month. And her storyline was just two weeks. It was two main characters in two weeks. And even in that.

Even in your book, the first section could have been an entire book.

: 00:45:03

Yeah. Yeah.

: 00:45:05

It was heavy, and it was. It was.

: 00:45:07

Yeah, it's.

: 00:45:09

A lot happens. But it was an amazing story. And there's so many more questions I want to ask you. But I just want to say thank you so much for your time.

Thank you so much for this story.

Because, like I said off recording, there are many of us that have lived very complicated lives, but our stories don't get told, or it's reduced to a monolithic perspective of just trauma. And we don't get to see the joy of. Because there's hard times and there's amazing times. There's confusing times. All of the emotions.

So I love that your characters have full lives that they, you know. And I love that you followed 20 years.

So we got to see Olivia and Funkay evolve as women fall in love, experience love, despite everything that had happened to them. So I just wanted to say thank you, Monica.

: 00:46:08

I'm so grateful because you've read what I want, what I tried to write, because there's so much nuance in this. And I agree with you. There's much more to black lives than trauma. And I think we need to read all of it.

: 00:46:21

All of it?

: 00:46:22

Yes. All the books.

: 00:46:24

All the books. All the books. All the books. So how can people keep in contact with you on your journey? Because not you.

I mean, you're releasing a book, but you've got two television shows coming out.

: 00:46:36

So I'm on social media. I'm on Twitter or X or whatever that man is calling it now. And I amay. And I'm on Instagram as Nicky Maywriter.

And I spent way too much time on social media. I should be writing book three, but instead I'm there tweeting and instagramming. So please follow me. Please stay in touch.

And hopefully wahala and this motherless land will be on our tv screens before long. And hopefully, if I stop going on social media so much, I will actually get knuckled down and get on with book three.

: 00:47:11

How many more books are coming?

: 00:47:13

I don't know. Book three is really big. I can see it. I can feel it. I'm getting to know my characters, so it feels real.

And I think there might be one more, but who knows? I don't know. I think. I don't know how many stories there are. There's so many stories to tell, though, aren't there? There's so much to talk about.

And I am obsessed with seeing people like me on the page. So one thing you can be sure about is every book I write will have someone, my color, my background, with my mixed heritage on the page.

And I struggle to think of a book I will do that. Won't go to Nigeria, because it's always an excuse to go home.

: 00:47:49

Well, listen, I appreciate and I can't wait to read book three. I can't wait to join the fan club for the television shows. I'm excited it's the BBC because I love british television.

And what I love most about it is people have wrinkles and they look like real people.

: 00:48:05

Exactly. Not too much Botox.

: 00:48:09

Yes. I can't wait to see, to experience it all. And thank you for creating this world. Thank you for sharing your empire with us.

And I really appreciate you joining the black Women Amplified podcast.

: 00:48:21

Thank you, Monica. Thank you for doing what you do. And one day I will meet you in St. Louis.

: 00:48:26

Definitely. Take care and have an amazing day.

: 00:48:30

You too. Thanks so much. Bye bye.

Nikki May: 00:48:34

Hello, black women amplified family. Welcome to the afterglow. I loved my conversation with Nikki May. Wasn't she amazing? Thank you for listening. Thank you for being here.

I hope that you share this with some people, people who are aspiring writers or that you took notes about her writing process. She was very generous in sharing it. And I love how she went from executive to author.

She bet on herself, she bet on her dreams, and she is doing the thing. I don't know too many people that are writing two books and putting out two television shows within a few years. That's amazing.

It reminded me of Ava Duvernay when she went from pr to directing films. And now she's doing all the things. You never know where your journey is going to land you. You just have to bet on yourself.

You have to say yes to the dream. You have to say yes to that whisper that keeps getting louder and showing you the direction in which you should go into.

So I loved hearing her accept her whole self. She's anglo, nigerian, she's british, and she's nigerian.

And it was really important for her to not only accept who she is as a full person, but put her story in her books. Wahala, as she explained to us, is about an interaction that she had with some girlfriends having lunch, and then this motherless land is about.

It's not specifically about her, but she is in that story. And I love that the difference between her nigerian roots and her british roots, all of that is in that story.

And one thing that I loved is that she keeps herself grounded. She's got all of the success. And like she said, it might be because she's older.

So it's not like, you know, you experience life when you get success at an older age.

Not that she didn't have success before, but when you get to this level of success and of something that you created, you know, past your fifties, it's a little bit different than when you get it in your twenties. When your twenties, you go to the mall and buy a whole bunch of stuff, but later in life, you're like, I bought all that stuff.

Let me just go have a great dinner and a good bottle of wine. So your celebration is a bit different. So keeping herself grounded was really great.

I loved hearing that she just lives a simple life at home, and she has friends that keep her together. So her perspective of life is really great.

I love how she told this story, because there's so many stories about black women and women of color that surrounds one or two narratives, and you know what the narratives are. But this is a. It's a beautifully complicated story, and it was a story that, coincidentally, I saw myself in.

When I got the opportunity to do this interview, I got the synopsis and I was like, okay, this sounds interesting, but as I read it, I was like, oh, my God. It just kept taking my breath away because it reminded me so much of my life. Different scenario, different people.

But the foundation of it was a lot of me. And it was the first time I had ever seen something that was so close to my life happen on the pages of this book.

And sometimes I would have to put the book down to like, ooh, let me take a breath. Let me take a breath and gather myself. So it took me a minute to get through it, only because it was bringing up memories for me.

Not in a bad way, but just like, oh, my gosh, I forgot all about that. But here it is on the pages of this motherless land. And I was really warmed up to her really quickly. It was like we knew each other.

So that made the conversation really easy and it flowed really, really well. And like I said before, I push record, we have a little bit of a conversation before and a little bit of conversation after.

And I was able to thank her for writing this story because I really did see myself inside these pages. So I think it's a great coming of age story.

The story lasts for two decades, and there's a plethora of emotions and feelings and locations that are within these pages. So I hope you take the time to read the book or get in on audio when it comes out and prepare for the television show.

But I really want to encourage you, like Nikki, to share your stories. And I'm going to repeat that again and again, forever and ever, especially through season four.

You know, this season is all about you living your best life. It's all about you embracing all of yourself, just like Nikki does. So I created a journal. You know, I love creating journals. I'm a journal holic.

Is that a thing? Let's just say it's a thing. But I created a journal to help people tell their stories. And it's a simple journal.

You just follow the exercises, but you can download it@blackwomanamplified.com. powerstory and you just give me your name.

And your email address should be added to our newsletter that comes out on Fridays, most Fridays and emails in between. You have opportunities to know more about what's happening with black women amplified.

And you download this beautiful journal that I created, and you have conversations with yourself and get to learn more about you, your story, and all the things you should be celebrating about yourself. So, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening to the afterglow.

We will have an episode out next week and if this is your first time listening to black women amplified, thank you for coming. If you have been rocking with me since the beginning, I appreciate you. I love you and there's more to come. Have an amazing evening. Take care.

Monica Wisdom: 00:54:31

Thank you for listening to black women amplified. We hope you enjoyed the show. Be sure to subscribe and log on to blackwomenamplified.com for more information. Keep shining.